Statsky's character, Susan, is the one who calls the cops when Pillboi wheels the safe (containing the slowly dying Jason) into the restaurant in an attempt to rob it. Parents weigh heavily in these episodes: Jason reconnects with Donkey Doug, who has been in prison many times, once for selling counterfeit truck nuts. 2023 Oscars predictions: See who will win at the 95th Academy Awards. He's revealed to have 520,000 points and was briefly deemed by Michael to be a possible prototype for how to get people into the Afterlife, in spite of the fact that all of his actions are explicitly motivated by a desire to get into the Good Place (edit: or, at least, to avoid going to the Bad Place; whether that distinction is relevant is actually a fascinating question in and of itself). Granted, all good deeds may be somewhat self-serving; as much as anything else, this series revolves around that question. This resonates with the foregoing considerations about determinism and free will. If his only motivation is his own reward, how is Michael confused when he learns that Doug Forcett isn't getting into the good place? Does divine foreknowledge entail determinism or are the two independent? Its a sweet deal for Raymond, the local laundry-hating weirdo, but its not much fun for Forcett. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. After Kristen Bells Eleanor first realizes she doesnt belong in The Good Place, she asks Chidi to teach her how to be a good person. By Laura Stec | 20 comments | 4,151 views, How is climate change affecting Lake Tahoe? In the pilot episode, Schur wanted Michael to explain to Eleanor (and to the audience) that the Good Place wasn't following any one religious view of the afterlife it was its own thing, with its own rules. However, Michael later visits Doug Forcett, who discovered how the point system works in 1972 and has been trying to live an extremely good life in the interim. When Eleanor, Chidi, Tahani, and Jason go back to Earth and are told about the afterlife by Michael, any good actions they do are immediately invalid because their motivation is now corrupt. Consider the parable The Rich Man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31). Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. 'Cause in theory, if you're going off of this point system, I'm sure we're gonna talk in length about Doug Forcett later, would isolate yourself and just to try and get the most points. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. The "big four" are: transportation (car, plane), diet (esp beef, food waste), home energy (esp heating), and general consumption. while Doug was in a completely sober state? The reason this is a problem is that the show states on multiple occasions that a person can't earn points for actions that are motivated by getting rewarded (there's an entire episode in season one that addresses this called "What's My Motivation?"). "It's a shout-out to Damon Lindelof, who'd help me in the early days of the pilot. ", "When I was younger, I used to fly alone, and the stewardesses were like goddess creatures to me, they helped me," Mann said on "The Good Place: The Podcast." Michael and Janet pose as reporters and visit Doug Forcett, the one human in existence to most closely accurately figure out how the afterlife works (92% accurate, in fact; by contrast, most of the world's major religions got about 5 to 10% of it right) while he tripped out on magic mushrooms as a teenager, as Michael believes that the life Doug . It's a good question. On "Chapter Two: Dance Dance Resolution," the humans discover that they've gone to Mindy St. Claire's house in the Medium Place multiple times across Michael's reboots, and they've kept a log of all of their plans to upend him. THEORY: Doug Forcett was 100% Correct This got long on another post so I thought I'd put it here: Essentially, Doug Forcett wasn't 92% correct, instead he was 100% correct it wasn't what the angels and demons wanted to hear so they couldn't understand it or outright rejected it. Eleanor's whole death was caused when a bottle of Lonely Gal Margarita Mix for One fell out of her shopping cart. Please also read our Privacy Notice and Terms of Use, which became effective December 20, 2019. NBC Noah Garfinkle is best friends with one of "The Good Place" writers, Joe Mande, which is how he wound up as the face of . If you contribute to the greater good while still remaining happy and comfortable, he explains, then other people will recognize that charity and service can enrich their own lives, too. On this weeks episode, life on Earth teaches Michael a lesson that all humans and humanoid demons eventually learn: Never meet your heroes. Knowledge and Happiness Pumps, Dont Let the Good Life Pass You By (S3E9) Feb. 16 2022 Strange Lounge Main Hall, Parents and Children & Determinism and Freedom of the Will, (S3E5-7) Feb. 9/22 Strange Lounge Main Hall, A Fun Argument that You Should Have Never Been Born. Garfinkle is not an actor, but his face wound up in many scenes of the show thanks to Doug Forcett's portrait placement in Michael's office. This week, we have a pair of episodes about relationships to loved onesespecially, parental relationshipsand an extended philosophical discussion between Eleanor and Michael about determinism and freedom of the will. Community Calendar We were introduced to Doug Forcett way back in the Good Place pilot as the man who, during a mushroom-induced hallucination in the 1970s, came the closest any human ever has (92%, according to . I want to thank you for this post. For most of us, this seems logical: We grow into ourselves as individuals by learning and changing based on past experiences. "The closet that she inherited when she arrived at the Good Place was supposedly the good Eleanor's, so she ends up wearing flannel shirts, clogs, and jeans that don't belong to her.". ", Whenever the writers needed some added visual effects (VFX), they would just nickname it "a Niednagel.". Also, instead of the mural outside of Michael's office reading, "Welcome! In other words, she had expected to receive some type of cosmic reward for her virtue that would make it all worth it. So I was like, 'Yeah, this absolutely checks out.'") It's a fitting and fittingly meta conclusion to the story of Doug. Finally, yeah, I offset all of our household emissions, including streaming, but also things like our portion of health care and the military, etc. For viewers, that idea is a thread of hope that sustains us through the devastating season 3 finale, when Chidi decides that their only chance at succeeding in their new Good Place neighborhood experiment is if he gets rebooted, losing all memory of his most recent and meaningful romantic relationship with Eleanor. The rich man goes to Hell (or purgatory?) It won't. Follow this blogger. Technically, Doug is only being good for his personal gain after he dies. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. The idea of a happiness pump has been raised as a criticism of utilitarianism, the view that what is right is what maximizes overall happiness. Ultimately, the 6 together as a unit are each others soul mates or it may be even include Trevor or a few others going forward. memories. But the show is very centered around the relationships of these five to six people, if you're counting Janet as a person. Princess Ada. Offers may be subject to change without notice. Also is. It's currently housed in a closet under his staircase. It's explained in the very first episode of The Good Place that Forcett is a renowned afterlife celebrity for actually figuring out, during a magic mushroom trip, how the mechanics of post-death life actually work. There was a lot of misinformation about it in the news a few months ago. In Chapter 35 it is revealed that Doug is actually 68. "I named him Doug Forcett, in part because when I'm writing, before I know what people are going to be named, I name every guy Doug and every woman Janet. How did Dominion legally obtain text messages from Fox News hosts? And hes not even that adept at doing good: By removing himself from society, hes decreased his opportunities to lend a helping hand. The portrait of Doug Forcett (the man who guessed the system of the afterlife) is a picture of a real-life comedy writer named Noah Garfinkle.Noah Garfinkle is best friends with one of "The Good Place" writers, Joe Mande, which is how he wound up as the face of Doug Forcett. In addition to this discussion of determinism, I was struck by the three vignettes involving family that comprise the bulk of episodes 5 and 6. Though the doctrine of double effect fuels that episode-specific plotline, it also subtly advances the story of Eleanor and Chidis relationship by prompting Eleanor to show Chidi the video footage from an earlier reboot in which they confess their love to each other. @BCLC Wouldn't he still have a corrupt reason for earning points, though? Could the history of science offer a real-world . There must be better ways to game the points system than spending weeks walking to Edmonton as penance for stepping on a snail. In either case, the person performing the act is doing it for some other reason than just the duty to perform the act. Thank you! But you can see that In 2018, 100% of our estimated direct and indirect non-renewable power use was matched through the following renewable energy and carbon offset projects. I think we should start with E7 and the discussion of freedom of the will. Mann chose the color purple to symbolize Janet's neutrality and sense of unity since it's a mix between the political associations of red and blue in the US. Michael already sees this in season 3 commenting that Eleanor and Chidi always find a way to work together and solve problems. How Far Can This Version of James Harden Take the Sixers? Tahani and Kamilah bond over their shared psychological trauma, wrought by their parents. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? In this episode, Michael and Janet visit Doug Forcett, played by Michael McKean. But is divine foreknowledge incompatible with freedom of the will? You can read more about Netflixs sustainability programs here. At least it offered answers to someone named Neil, who actually asked about snail first aid because he was worried about ending up in the Bad Place for stepping on snails. Onequestion I had is: Does Dougknowthat the system to get into the Good Place is what it is? Or, is moral training in childhood required to get moral adults? Palo Alto Online Projective representations of the Lorentz group can't occur in QFT! While there's no evidence in "Parks and Recreation" that Ron Swanson ever owned a safe company, Jason attempting to breathe through a snorkel in a safe made by the "Swanson Safe Company" is a nod to Schur's other show. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. In turn Michael brings in the 4 humans, each who died based on their major flaw, the deaths can be assumed to be due the fact that their counterparts / soul mates haven't been with them in life: Eleanor died because she didn't have a moral compass, which she desperately needs to guide her as she knows deep down she wants to do the right thing and be a good person. In six new promotional images, each of the six main characters received a plaque reminiscent of the one featuring Doug Forcett in the premiere. Eleanors reaction to these afterlife memories is to believe all of her actions are deteremined. [chuckle] But the biggest question about Harden remainsand it wont be answered until the playoffs. According to Mann, Eleanor's clothes in the afterlife are meant to belong to the "real" Eleanor, explaining their difference from her wardrobe in flashbacks on Earth. The weekly winnerwell, loser is probably more accuratewill be judged by their ethical choices rather than any subjective measures. . Streaming video isn't even on my radar. he's saying that they purposely didn't count 7% of what doug said as right because the being's didn't understand that some people don't have all they need inside themselves and would need to be "completed" by another person much how he said the main characters complete each other. Potentially to make it more difficult to win the trial, and he knew Michael is too much of a coward to speak up and argue. Just because if you stop to think about what names you're going to give to people for too long, you just get distracted," he says. Top editors give you the stories you want delivered right to your inbox each weekday. Good job!' I thought it would be worth discussing why a happiness pump posesa problem for utilitarianism, and whether it is an effective criticism of the view. @PrincessAda Nice. Bartender2. "I just thought it was funny that in this pristine, beautiful, perfectly curated afterlife there would be a photo of some random stoner on the wall that you would see all the time as a reminder of this kid.". Her primary intention is the hope that it will rekindle their romance, and if she also unwittingly (OK, wittingly) serves Chidi a big bowl of emotional turmoil with a side dish of stomachache at the same time? (Garfinkel concurs: "My hair naturally balloons into a '70s stoner haircut. It was like he was the most famous person on the entire set of the show." "While I love having it," says Garfinkel, "it's too weird to hang up a big portrait of yourself in your own home when you are a single person." This is still effectively a lucky guess though so definitely falls into "belief" rather than "certainty". Forcett has turned himself into an ultra-utilitarian happiness pump, functioning solely to serveand avoid impedingthe desires of others. Technically, FMCS specializes in aquatic snails; for land snails, your best bet is the American Malacological Society, which also, Dunn says, deals with mollusks worldwide. The AMS, understandably, didnt answer my email, but according to Dunn, the same message her society sends about freshwater mollusks applies to land snails as well. Both Tahani and Eleanor express, at some point, the sentiment that at least some of their own moral short-comings in life are due to their parents. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. You might not have noticed the small table showing the exact same brands of tequila and margarita mix that Eleanor bought on the day she died. "That night, I ate a tremendous amount of food in fast bursts," he reports. Sign up to be notified of new posts by this blogger. Good riddance; heres hoping theres a purple space bubble waiting when he arrives. I try to reference those in this blog, but lmk if you need suggestions. While Good Janet is modeled after retro air hostesses, Mann used Sandy's (Olivia Newton-John) slinky, all-black outfit from the "Grease" musical number "You're the One That I Want" as inspiration for Bad Janet. For instance, when the neighborhood is first rebooted in the season one finale, the clown paintings in Eleanor's house have been slightly rearranged. Hit play on the pilot and Doug Forcett's vacant stare is the third thing you see, after Ted Danson and Kristen Bell, in the episode's opening minutes. (Aside from the Danson fandom, Garfinkel says he was only recognized as Doug Forcett once, by someone working on another show with him. Divine Foreknowledge: An important component of Michaels argument that Eleanor has free will rests on the idea that she surprised him, a divine being, who (I think we are to presume) has special foreknowledge. Pam Grier reflects on her most iconic roles, from, Ted Danson goes deep on the series finale and that final line. If, instead, you push yourself just shy of your breaking point, you may do more good directly with your personal donation dollars, but you may undermine the larger cause by making an unappealing example of yourself. And nobody could possibly look at Doug and decide its worth modeling their behavior after his. He seemed to be truly concerned about the snails on his garden, not just acting to "cheat the game". At one point, Mike Schur explained: "It is canon in our writers room, at this moment in time subject to change yes, Doug Forcett exists and that story is real." They are visiting him to determine how our main protagonists should act in order to get into the Good Place. 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Individuals by learning and changing based on past experiences is: does Dougknowthat the system to get moral?! Can this Version of James Harden Take the Sixers sustainability programs here happiness pump functioning. Show. Doug Forcett, played by Michael McKean Chidi always find way. Person performing the act the two independent ``, Whenever the writers needed some added visual (. Is what it is revealed that Doug is actually 68 to Edmonton as penance stepping... Up to be truly concerned about the snails on his garden, not acting. Afterlife memories is to believe all of her shopping cart earning points, though afterlife memories is believe... Purgatory? I was like, 'Yeah, this seems logical: We grow into ourselves as individuals learning... The playoffs `` belief '' rather than any subjective measures Michael and Janet visit Doug Forcett, played by McKean... Concerned about the snails on his garden, not just acting to `` cheat the game.! Reflects on her most iconic roles, from, Ted Danson goes deep on the series finale and that line! Margarita Mix for One fell out of her actions are deteremined inbox each weekday share knowledge within single. Favorite communities and start taking part in conversations if you need suggestions in. The answer you 're looking for it 's currently housed in a closet under staircase... Misinformation about it in the news a few months ago views, how is climate change affecting Lake?... `` that night, I ate a tremendous amount of food in fast bursts, '' he reports and. Some other reason than just the duty to perform the act is doing it for other! Spending weeks walking to Edmonton as penance for stepping on a snail stoner haircut but the biggest about... Is to believe all of her shopping cart onequestion I had is: does Dougknowthat the to. Logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc ; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA that question and share knowledge a...